Odd Serial Numbering

d findley
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:51 am

Odd Serial Numbering

Post by d findley » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:12 pm

Take a look at these numbers. Any ideas?
Attachments
Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 11.20.52    AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 11.20.52 AM.png (80.06 KiB) Viewed 303 times
RSSMX 09539.jpg

Coogs
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:07 am
Location: NW PA.

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by Coogs » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:52 am

Stamped on a Monday (rough weekend), or a Friday ( wanted to get out, to have a rough weekend) new guy didn't know how to set the machine, old guy didn't care.........take your pick! :lol: :o :lol: :o

chet15
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by chet15 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:20 am

Thanks Donnie!
For all of you who's thinking was that the early 1969 prefixed guns were serial numbered in a one-step process, this pistol proves it didn't happen that way!
For years we have noted guns with the prefix and dash separated a little from the other five digits, or the dash even running somewhat on top the first digit in the other five, something that in my opinion absolutely could not happen the way the serial numbering heads are made.... wheels of numbers stacked close to each other.
From gun to gun one wheel is rotated to the the next corresponding serial number. But those wheels are stacked close to each other, so there's no way to get side to side movement, up/down discrepencies yes, but NOT side to side. We have also archived closeups of 10- prefix serial numbers where the prefix is lighter stamped than the other five digits and also where the prefix is much heavier stamped than the other five digits.
Then about ten years ago the Single-Six number 09539 showed up with large serial numbers. We were able to determine the gun should have been 20-09539 since the gun had black eagle medallions and the rollmark on the left side of the cylinder frame did not have the circle "R" trademark (added at about 20-53xxx). So one of two possibilities... either the 20- was rolled too far up or down on the serial numbering head to make an impression in the metal, or the serial numbers on the earliest prefix guns were done in a two-step process. Some said, "look for evidence the prefix was ground off".!!!
John Dougan's latest book, page 355, says that NUMBERALL head serial number A1006J63 (originally shipped to Ruger on October 3, 1963...the serial number head with large 1/8" numbers) was modified "in the tool room in December 1968 by opening up the yoke, and two additional character wheels, retaining pawls and springs were added. A total of seven number wheels plus one to mark the hyphen were required." Actually a total of eight digits plus the hypen were needed on the serial numbering head to accomodate for the 100- and 110- prefixed .44 Carbine and 10/22 carbine series'.
But... by the looks of that 10- prefix serial number, that serial numbering head was not modified until much later in 1969.
On the auto, note closely the font size of the "0" in the prefix and the font size of the 2nd digit of five, the "0" in the prefix is much larger. We have found that when the font size became the same between the prefix and the other five digits, that is when space discrepencies are no longer found between prefix and other digits, so must be when Ruger finally utilized an 8 wheel head (plus hyphen) to stamp serial numbers in a one-step process. This happened much later in the 10- prefix for autos.
Chet15

Watertender
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by Watertender » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:26 am

I would say that the Auto was stamped in 2 seperate processes by the look of it. 10- 10247 with such a larger seperation makes me believe that the 10 prefix was hand added. Also the 2 in the serial number is slightly dropped indicating an indexing problem with the roll stamp. The beginning serial number for 1969 for the .22 pistol series was 463239 so the number progression for 1970 figuring aproximately 27000 pistols would have put the number around 490250 to start the year. I am thinking of this in a mechanical way using the serial number chart from the Ruger website. Just another mystery in the puzzle that is Ruger and another sub species to collect....
Some people sit on $.05 of knowledge like it is the treasure of Egypt. I will teach anyone $.10 worth just to prove a point...

chet15
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by chet15 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:54 pm

Nope... not hand added. If it was hand added it would have been right up next to the other five digits.
Discrepencies are seen all the time with individual digits rolled higher or lower than level, but they should NEVER be seen with spacing differences between digits. The serial numbering head has several wheels in it, all kept together by a yoke.... think old style price stamper at a grocery store. There can never be spacing between the digits.
Chet15

Coogs
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:07 am
Location: NW PA.

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by Coogs » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:36 pm

I still like my explanation better................... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Watertender
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by Watertender » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:45 pm

Thanks Chet. I truly wonder what the reason was. Seeing that it was done probably 50 years ago we may never know why.
Some people sit on $.05 of knowledge like it is the treasure of Egypt. I will teach anyone $.10 worth just to prove a point...

chet15
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by chet15 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:36 pm

To me it is because they hadn't truly modified the serial numbering head to include 8 digits plus the hyphen.
Look at the sn head pictured in JD's book, you'll see what I mean. Doesn't matter what time period that sn head is from, they all look the same, except for how many wheels they will accept.
Chet15

User avatar
Rugerologist
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Location: Arkansas

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by Rugerologist » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:33 pm

Here are a few other examples with the up/down movement that is not as dramatic but still noticeably out of alignment or slightly less than horizontally stamped. The 10 prefix gun has some unusual depths in the rest of the SN. Some very deep. I think they can be seen fairly well in this photo.
Attachments
IMG-0515.jpg
IMG-0514.jpg
IMG-0513.jpg
"I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestionable ability of man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor." - Henry David Thoreau
Aquatic Biologist
NRA Life Member
R.O.C.S. Editor
R.C.A. Member #5050
R.E.N.E Subscriber

chet15
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Odd Serial Numbering

Post by chet15 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:17 am

Notice how close the dash is to the 0 in the prefix on the two autos. All the early autos are identical, until the "0" font changed in the prefix to be like that of the other five digits.
Chet15

Post Reply